Dear Hoover,
Here is a cropped and reformatted compilation of the responses I got
to my question regarding high temporal resolution visual stimulators
for neurophysiology, especially for optical imaging.
Please note the first response, which corrects an inadvertent error in
my original posting.
I would like to thank all those who replied to this enquiry.
Best, Daniel.
Daniel Glaser bnglaser@tohu0.weizmann.ac.il
Department of Neurobiology http://www.weizmann.ac.il/~bnglaser
Weizmann Institute of Science Phone: + 972 (0)8 934 3080
Rehovot 76100 ISRAEL Fax: + 972 (0)8 934 4129
1/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
crsltd <crsltd@crsltd.com>
I've just seen your posting on CV-Net and would like to correct the
fact that the you stated that the VSG2/3 and VSG Series Three visual
stimulus generators are limited to refresh rates of 120Hz. Both
systems support frame rates up to 500Hz and line scan rates up to
200KHz. The stimulators are limited by the capabilities of the display
device rather than their video output circuitry or controlling
software.
Steven Elliott - Marketing
Cambridge Research Systems Ltd
2/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
Valentine MARCAR <vmarcar@kispi.unizh.ch>
I have received your request for information over the CVNet. I have
used a variety of different program packages including some home grown
code to display stimuli and record from single units. I am presently
using VisionWorks Ver 2.26 in conjunction with the TIGA card on a
Pentium. I evaluated the package when we were looking for an
alternative to the GOULD 9000 and the home grown software we were
using a Leuven. I am suitably impressed with its performance and the
accuracy of its timing. I at present engaged in fMRI research and am
not subject to the timing constraints that were necessary when I was
doing single cell recordings but I believe that VisionWorks is up to
the job of handling what you are likely to be asking of it. I hate to
sound like a sales rep. for Vision Research Graphics but the package
is good and the support I have received from VRG is also very good. I
can recommend the VRG package.
3/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
vaegan <vaegan@unsw.edu.au>
Regarding your choice of stimulator
The question is simply how deep are your pockets vs how much work do you
want to do
VRG is top quality, rock solid highly programmable and will work right
out of the box. their support is excellent.
CRS are clunky, often undocumented, cheap and very much a hands on
programming experience. Their support is good if you can get through but
I am told you need to be an excellent programmer to get it up and
running bug free.
There are all sorts of hassles with having the card in the same machine
you use for data acquisition.
VRG works easily in a separated dedicated machine
CRD often assumes the two are in the one box and share interrupts.
VRG if you can afford the extra.
4/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Scase <mscase@dmu.ac.uk>
The VRG system uses a VSG card. A VSG series 3 is essentially a VSG
mounted in a box and is designed to receive commands using a scripting
language. Therefore all three systems use the same hardware. Why not
speak to the manufacturers:
VRG: http://www.vrg.com
VSG: http://www.crsltd.com
5/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Helen O'Donnell" <h.l.odonnell@bangor.ac.uk>
I'm writing in response to your query on CVNet re: visual stimulus
generators. We currently use the Cambridge research system VSG 2/3 and
find it quite good both for developing new psychophysical tasks and
for using the pre-programmed stimuli. Generating grating patterns
seems very straightforward requiring only one or two lines of code
defining spatial frequency, contrast etc. The VSG board will take
input through it's ports to trigger stimulus production (probably
within one screen refresh) but can also generate output to trigger a
data collection setup.
The only issue is that programming with Windows 95 to create nice
dialog boxes and menus is a little messy. The package provided with
the VSG is Borland Delphi which makes it a lot more reasonable to
handle.
6/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael P Stryker <stryker@phy.ucsf.EDU>
It is relatively easy using the cheap Computer Boards TTL interface
boards to monitor 32 bits of TTL input, and it is also easy to write a
simple DOS or Windows program to have the CRS VSG2/3 make lots of
different stimuli, but one has to program each stimulus separately in
C, and our system at least lacks the ease and flexibility of Kaare
Christian's STIM program scripting language.
I tried to get the Number Nine board a year ago and could not find
one, so I use the VSG and my own stimulating code.
Perhaps Kaare Christian or someone else has written STIM or something
like it for one of the modern cheap and fast VGA boards, a project
that could be difficult but would make the hardware cost almost nil.
The current PC/VGA combinations are as fast, I am sure, as the old
number nine board was. It is possible that the new Windows/Direct
video game interface would make it possible to write a portable or
fairly portable version of STIM or something similar, if anyone was
interested in doing so.
7/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yuri Danilov <ydanilov@facstaff.wisc.edu>
We have both systems in experiments, for behavior, evoked potentials and
neurophysiology experiments.
Both Vision Research Graphics and VSG are working good, but:
1.Vision Research Graphics -more difficult in the exploitation and
service, and also in the technical support, and much more expensive.
2.Vision Research Graphics going to change main board to VSG board
pretty soon, and it will be about 3 times more expensive than VSG
original system.
3.For single cell recording we have new system from VSG: VSG THREE -
specially organized system for neurophysiology- it is working as a
master, and as well as a slave. All tests working good, but in real
experiments - I did not check it yet.
My recommendation 100% for VSG.
8/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
bioslp@panther.gsu.edu (Sarah L. Pallas)
I'm about to set up a #9 (which I purchased a long time ago) and
Kaare's STIM program to be run by a CED data acquisition program. The
other visual stimulator programs I looked at, including the one you
mentioned plus CED's own, were just too expensive. I'd be interested
in whatever info your question generates.
9/9----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeAngelis <gregd@monkeybiz.stanford.edu>
We recently upgraded from the #9 boards to the Cambridge VSG2/3
boards, and we are quite happy with them. It sounds to me like they
would suit your needs. Depending on what your monitors support, the
VSG board can operate at high refresh rates (I have done 800x600 at at
least 160Hz), and you have complete control over the timing parameters
using the CONFIG utility.
I have no experience with the VisionWorks system, however, so
I cannot really give you any comparison. I can try to answer other
questions that you might have about the CRS board though. When we
were looking into these, CRS sent us a copy of the system manuals
(which are good), and I found these very helpful to look at.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
END END END END END END END END END END END END END END END END END